Posted by DR on June 12, 2005 at 17:25 [67.83.76.91]
In Reply to: Equal Opportunity Must Defer To "Distinct Characte posted by L.E. on June 12, 2005 at 08:07
L.E.,
You wrote:
"women are...the subject of feeding frenzies that in turn drive them away"
You're muddying the waters by introducing harassment. I'm simply discussing the (bad) idea that men should proactively take a back seat on such boards. This is very different from harassment.
But you're *absolutely* wrong about men driving women away. The women drive themselves away. *They* choose not to return.
However, I agree with you that those men who harass women in diaper kink groups aren't helping -- hence my earlier, jocular post about the 25 stupidest things men say in response to an AB girl's ISO ad. Nevertheless, if a woman prioritizes her voice on a diaper board, then she will not allow any amount of harassment to run her off.
And you also wrote:
"UNLESS at least ONE board can be maintained where the men acknowledge that they must take a back seat there."
Why does it have to be *this* board? Considering that this board was created as a free source for both men and women, I wonder why another message board wouldn't serve better for your idea.
But you mistakenly assume that if you build it, they will come. Will women come to a strongly pro-women forum? Perhaps, but maybe not. What exactly are you willing to sacrifice in order to take that chance? Equal opportunity perhaps?
But let's even say that you build it -- hypothetically -- and the women come. Let's say that you create a forum where men take a back seat on conversations. And let's say that most of the women on your new message board would turn tail and run if you suddenly allowed men equal speaking time. Let's assume this hypothetical as you suggest...
Are those really the kinds of members that you want? Do you want participants who value comfort over community? Do you want participants, male or female, who so easily abandon their communities because they feel "overwhelmed?" Are those the kinds of low standards you expect from your participants on your message board?
If so, then go out and build it! Every woman here can do the same if she likes. *If* she prefers a female-dominated message board, then why can't she go out and build it? Build five hundred such message boards! If diaper message boards overwhelm her, but if her voice is *that* important to her, then why wouldn't she create a message board of her own -- with her rules? Why wouldn't she perhaps learn a little HTML or PHP and create a bang up forum?
If, as you claim, there are so many disgruntled women out there, who are overwhelmed by male bickering on their diaper message boards, but want to voice their opinions with equality, then why aren't there currently five hundred such diaper kink message boards with a female preference? Why aren't we seeing this? Why haven't these disgruntled women done something about it?
L.E., I agree with you that men in the diaper community need to learn how to better interact with women. There is no doubt about this. But our most important lesson we must all learn is responsibility to ourselves first. We must accept responsibility for our choices. If its *that* important that I speak with equality, then I must be willing to do whatever it takes to achieve that. I must stick to my guns, even when I feel "overwhelmed" or harassed or belittled. Or instead, I must create my own such message board with the rules I enjoy. That is responsibility.
You must learn that this responsibility cannot be achieved by pointing the finger at what others are doing or not doing. And responsibility cannot be achieved by asking others to defer their freedoms, their opportunities.
As for me, I've probably done more for women into diaper desires than nearly anyone. I say nearly, because others have provided greater contributions than I have. However, mine have been significant. Contrary to your comment, I have done nothing to deny women opportunities in the diaper kink world, but rather that I've provided tremendous opportunities for them. And in all of my time doing so, I've learned that you can bring a horse to water, but you can't make her drink. You can encourage women to participate, you can help empower them, (and in your case, you can even create rules to tip the scales in their favor) but if they don't want to accept responsibility for their own voices -- their own choices -- you can do nothing to aid their development among diaperists.
I'm done speaking about this topic now. I've done all I can to convince you. You'll probably continue to disagree but sooner or later L.E., you'll learn that I'm correct, and that this is true not only of diaperists, but of all people.
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